Ep 003 | Most Important Books for Agency Owners

Episode Highlights:

0:00 - Intro

2:40 - Books Every Agency Owner Should Read

4:40 - You Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins

7:18 - Alter Ego by Todd Herman

10:48 - Traction: Get a Grip on Your Business by Gino Wickman and Mike Payton

13:16 - Breeding Gazelles by Dan Bradbury

16:59 - Tribal Leadership by Dave Logan

18:26 - Culture is Everything by Tristan White

22:23 - The Goal by Eli Goldratt

27:21 - Profit First by Mike Michalowicz

32:06 - Closing Remarks

Episode Transcript:

Charley: Hello agency owners. It's Charley Valher here, the host of the Agency Valley podcast. And today I am bringing you a special episode all about The Books Every Agency Owner Should Read. Now brought Kim Barrett back onto the show to come and do this episode with me because this is a topic we have discussed a lot and it's something that we were both really into. Now I really believe that reading is one of those habits and things someone can do that can completely transform your life and business for the better. Now I wanted to tell a quick story that a few years back I met a business owner and I'll keep his name private because I haven't asked him if I can disclose this. But he was able to take his company from one mill to 10 mil in the space of about three to four years which is a phenomenal effort at such a big leap to make. And you're really operating a completely different business when you make that type of leap. But I asked him I looked him square in the face and I said "What were the things you changed that allowed you to go from one mill to 10 mill? What was the thing that made the difference"? And he looked back at me and he said that the number one thing he changed is he went from reading for 30 minutes a day to 90 minutes a day. And had a huge impact on me because at that time I was only reading maybe 20 to 30 minutes a day. And this is something that I have massively increased and upped in my own efforts and I've seen it's had a huge impact on my life. Now the books in this episode are specific for agency owners and tend to be a great reading list for any agency or and at any stage. We've intentionally picked books that are evergreen. They're not going to fade away or you know not be useful to you at any point from there. And I highly highly recommend you read them all. So that's it for me. Let's dive into the episode if you do enjoy this please make sure you subscribe to the show and share this with any other agency owner so we can help spread the word.

Charley: And we are live on the agency Valley podcast. It's Charley Vallher here and today I am joined once again by the one and only Kim Barrett from Your Social Voice. How you doin Kim?

Kim: I am doing super well miss Charley sir, how you?.

Charley: Doin well. We got some good feedback on our last episode of the Agency Valley podcast. It was nice to get some people kind of I suppose it's always nervous when you start something new. You don't know how the people are going to respond. And here's some nice words was really comforting. So I'm thrilled we're doing more episodes.

Kim: Yeah me too, it was great to be on the first one so pumped to be back with you.

Charley: Well today's episode who I'm excited by this one because we're actually doing the books every agency owner should read. And I have a feeling that we'll probably really enjoy what each other picks here because a very in tune with these ones. But nonetheless that exciting topic and some must reads for agency owners. Did you have a hard time picking your books or selecting one?

Kim: It was because obviously for me like there's many books that I have read which kind of fall more I would say into the advertiser hat, where it's like who as an advertiser these are great but if I look at like a level above as agents onwer, you're like does that books do make sense as one of the best? Oh my gosh and like I am weighing them all off like throwing them on the floow so not do or read it. But I think I've got a pretty pretty pretty good list here myself.

Charley: You know I actually had that same challenge. There were some books like I actually got into my Kindle which I've had for a very long time. I was scrolling back and I was looking going I have a lot going to pick the best three books here but I think the most important for agency owners and like some of them I realized had gone out of date very quickly. They were great tactical books at the time but I'm pretty confident that some of them like you know putting red borders on your Facebook ads doesn't work anymore. Who knows it could be coming back. Yeah. Well so you know when I made my list of gone or. All the books I pick I don't want to be tactical because I think the best tactical things of liking know how to do X or like how to do SEO or how to build a website. How did you WordPress How did your Facebook ads. I actually think that coaches and mentors are the best avenues from that. So none of my peaks are tactical. They're all books that I think are more of an evergreen approach and a different angle.

Kim: Interesting. That's good. I'm very curious to hear them on that.

Charley: All right. Well I think we should just dive right into this one like it's gonna be an interesting one. Now would you like to go first or do you want me to crack the lid on this one?

Kim: I'll let you crack a little on this one.

Charley: OK. So no one is actually a book I've read recently which is called, You Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins. [3.1] And the reason I picked this book is I think it is overwhelmingly probably the best book I've ever read on mindset and I suppose personal growth. And when you read the David Goggins story you can't help but despair listening there and discussing going Oh my God I've got it so easy. Like I've really got it so easy. And I even found that the perspective it gave me towards business and life and work was just amazing from the mindset it was able to create for me. And I think if you're an agency owner what separates those who I suppose do okay from those who do really really well I think mindset is a really big part of it. So in that kind of mindset category I've given you can't hurt me by David Goggins on the spot. And that's what we're going to open up with on this can of worms here.

Kim: Nice man. I do like that. And it's made me as you if anyone ever listen to the confessions podcast. I do like to freestyle a little bit. So I had too chosen and I had another one and you would come to me for a certain reason which I think is my next one that I would share. So again in that mindset category this was actually pretty. Again it's probably I'm like nine tenths of the way through. So I'm happy to kind of throw out the recommendation for it and I actually had it in play I'll tell you quickly story if that's okay. I had to play the other day so yesterday was a pretty rough day at the office. Lots of different things going on and I just probably wasn't in the best mindset myself. Lots of things happening I'm leaving on Thursday for a week pretty crazy. So I went down to play squash a play squash if I can every day. At the end of the day good sweat session and good workout. And I was just getting like normally I'm competitive in squash I go with the guys I play with like I do I can win games sometimes it's like it is pretty even last night I was just getting flogged it was like some of the shots I was looking I didn't even hit the ball I was just like swinging and missing I was like What the hell is going on here. This does not make sense. And then I quickly like was the last game was about to leave and I was like down like six nil. And I was like OK like this only nine points here so I'm not very far off winning. So I just shift the nose. Okay. Cool. As opposed to getting all upset you go in but you just lost the last four games. Badly I was cool in my head I started singing the lyrics to the song. All I do is win. So I just had that go on and I started playing and I got back up to was like then I was like two three four is like five six and then it was like 6 8 6 9. So I came back pretty pretty well.

Kim: Most points I scored on game. But what I likened it to doing which is what this book is all about is creating a alter ego as The Alter Ego Effect is the recommendation by Todd Herman and he likens it to a lot of singers, sports stars, etc. that when they walk on the field they embody a different personality or they walk on the stage they embody a different personality but that also can come across in business. And he gave so many years so many good examples but also tactical ways that you can apply that because when you go into a business meeting. Not always is the person who you exactly are right this second going to be the best person to get the outcome that you want. Sometimes you might have to be a hard ass sometimes you may have to you know have high higher levels of negotiation and if you personally are not used to that sometimes it can help to step in a cool.

Kim: Well this is like if I am Kim I'm bringin in someone else and create a new name and alter ego for that person who comes into play in that scenario and I'll be using it and playing with that over the last week or so in in squash and I've definitely noticed an improvement in my game when I go in is like who I'm going to like I mind's Michael Jordan on mine. I feel like he always is just goes out and dominates and that's what I feel like when I go out there and then I started to apply similar to business and someone who is probably a very hardass and is not aggressive but is like is hard in his approach someone that Grant Cardone. So I've been kind of listening to a few of his his things and trying to take some of his approaches in this angle 'coz if I'm not doing this is great. I don't he doesn't care like using give two craps about what the outcome is. And this is what he is looking forward to get it make sure it's obviously win win on both sides. But he is hard about what he does. So I think by being able to take that approach into business dealings is tremendously powerful.

Charley: I'll tell you what's really interesting here is that both of us straight off the ranks have gotten something to do with mindset. Mindset has been the opening here. Now I haven't actually read that book to comment but I can already say I'm very very fascinated by it and we'll probably buy it right after this podcast.

Kim: Yeah I think it's the agency owners because you have so many things going on unique like our Oh been like broaden the business owner but especially for agency owners you have so many things going on. If you don't have a strong mindset if you don't have the ability to deal with things coming in that sometimes can be tremendously good another time to be tremendously bad then you're really going to struggle. I think if you can't if you don't have my mindset that's going to help you get through those things.

Yeah I'll second that. I think it's easy to get knocked off course if you do anything to do with the Internet. And I'll just describe if you're right now if there was a Google Penguin update or panda or whatever zoo animal they're updating with if you have anything to do with Google that's gonna be a tough week and mindset becomes important. The next WordPress update if you're a web developer I'm sure is gonna break things or woo commerce or Shopify but there's so many things in that space that are going to cause like huge weeks. Kim you can probably relate to this one like you know some weeks Facebook ads just don't work no matter how good your ads are like they have some ups and downs you got to have some client resistance there. So that's a huge one and the same. We'd like every area of the Internet and I think there's one that is immune. People than the rest. Yeah.

Kim: As soon as you rely on technology it's like you're gonna have a bad time. At some point it's just it's guaranteed.

Charley: Yeah. So my mindset is the thing that gets you through I really really believe that. And I think we're both putting a really big point on this. So I like it. We're starting strong here. Mindset is the opening category and I'm definitely into by that book. I'll get back to you if I like it or not though.

Kim: Yeah. I love that. So what's your number two?

Charley: All right. So the second book I'm going to go with. I'm gonna go... It's actually two books but it's kind of one book. So I got a professor. So it's Get a Grip and Traction by Gina Wickman and Mike Peyton and just for reference is like get a grip is the story version and then traction is like the textbook versions. They're actually kind of the same book and they share the same ideas. But I think if you're someone that wants an enjoyable book to read where it's like a fable that helps you learn then get a grip is definitely the better one. And if you're like textbook nerd and you prefer to like get a degree in the systems of things then traction is the one to read and I've read them both. And the reason I put this in my list is there is that I think this is the best book or books that actually teaches someone how to run a business. I think that's something that is not documented well elsewhere. And I also think that the way they've gone about it is very very Evergreen. So that is taking my spot number two.

Kim: I like that.

Kim: All right I've read. I haven't read the first one the fable version of Red traction. So I'm definitely going to have to update my audible column after this podcast as well. No I like that. That's very good.

Charley: Let's I just find what's funny that traction was written first. I think they worked out. But hang on this is a very dry rate which it is actually sort of flavor to it. Oh my Traction is a harder read of the two. Definitely is but it doesn't discern it from being incredibly valuable. And one of the things I look at in the agency world today is like I even look at it. You know I've gone back and looked at this book more recently because I love what I have in the book which is called the level 10 meeting. But even to this day I read it a long time ago and then I read it today was like this is as relevant as ever. And still like a super powerful way to run an online business and an agency. And I think if you can like take the mindset of David Goggins and then run the actual business in the traction system it's a heavily strong evergreen way to go about running an agency.

Kim: Yeah, 100 percent.

Kim: Now it's probably feeds into the next book. I'll share my number two would be and this. I didn't get to read it at the beginning of my agency which I wish it did but it's Breeding Gazelles by Dan Bradbury. Now the reason why I threw this one out there is because I find that especially with agencies at the beginning and as they're working in this scaling it can be sporadic and sometimes what happens is like you will have crazy periods of growth and then you may have periods of slight decline or flatness and things like that. But I always find that anyone that I see that has an agency regardless of what kind of industry or what they are doing they all have at some point a period of sporadic growth. And I think that breeding gazelles gives you a great understanding of how to deal with that. It's like trying to capture a storm in a bottle type thing. I think it does give a great idea and insight but also just reaffirms like Hey it's okay you're not alone. There's always other people that have had very similar experiences. And to me I think it was something that really struck a chord and I made lots of adjustments to what I was doing at the time based on what I read in that book.

Kim: And for me it was just like I was like Oh they're like they're speaking my language. This is me. This book is written about me. It is great. And I think I made a huge impact on all the decisions I made after that as well.

Charley: Do you know it's interesting game during this very interesting. I didn't put that in my list because I was certain you would put it in your list and I was like Oh I reckon I can save this one so that almost definitely an honorable mention for me as well. I think that book is absolutely fantastic in the way particularly it describes staff about the hiring and when to hire and and why. And then management through numbers and leverage points I thought was fantastic. I love that book and much like you I wish I read that early on before I ever started my agency it would have been a big help. What's your favorite part of Breeding Gazelles hasn't been the most helpful to you?

Kim: I think definitely you mentioned some of the staffing parts was good but I think there was just some of the management aspects of it as well really helped because I think sometimes, like when it is a growing like you're going fast and it is taking off like literally can feel like you're in a plane. That's kind of held on by lucky bands and paper clips and you like shaking as you take off. So being knowing how to kind of repair that as you're in the air I would say is something that I found really really helpful and I took so many notes I remember from it and looking at it and just the way ways to rethink about different things that were happening in the business at the time was so powerful.

Charley: It's funny. I think back to, like, way back in the day when we were just like, I'll say, young little tackers doing our best in the world. When my agency, like-- I feel like I stayed in, like, the zero-to-ten-grand a month category for, like, a good while. Like almost 12 months, I'm pretty sure. But then the 10 to let's say 50 grand a month or 60 grand a month, like, was done in, like, three months under. Right. Was this sporadic period. And I resonated a lot with Breeding Gazelles into that period of my life. It's because, like, when you crack your winner and, like, things will start happening. Yeah, trying to just contain a storm. It's ridiculously interesting. Like, what life is like and how intense it is, and where you get stuck, and it's not in the areas you think you're gonna get stuck. So I'll back that one. I think Breeding Gazelles is a huge huge win. I love that you added this to the list but you are a little bit predictable. Just gonna say.

Kim: Well, actually that was not on my list until two minutes ago. So. Oh... I feel lucky only because you last mentioned it that it popped up so interesting. Interesting.

Charley: All right, well, I'm gonna dig into this next one. OK, so inevitably… All right. This is a fascination of mine is that I believe-- and this isn't just agencies but it does definitely include agencies-- culture and people is a big let-down. I feel like this is a weak point. Achilles heel of a lot of businesses is their ability to kind of create a good culture and then also have people involved in that culture. And it's only after experiencing a bad culture and the effects of that do you realize how important culture is. And I know you take it very seriously. We take it incredibly seriously at Outsourcing Angel now is like culture is everything. Like it comes first. But the book that really kind of put the pinnacle on people in culture for me and like, actually gave me the ability to, like, "Oh, how do-- how do we do culture?" You know, like how do we make it practical? What do I need to look for, like what's the steps? Was a book called Tribal Leadership by Dave Logan and this is still one of my all time favorites because of the way he's described things in that book. So, you know, coming into my theme, you know, we've got mindset number one, we've got how to like run the business number two with a grip and traction and then number three is the area of people, and I feel like people is something that is the must-do area for agency earners. So Tribal Leadership by Dave Logan gets the points there for me.

Kim: Well nice, man, you're just copying my flow. I didn't even know, because next on my list is literally a book called Culture is Everything.

Charley: No kidding, there's a book called that? Yeah, yeah. But Tristan White's Visa is like the number one place to work in Australia. I think voters, like, three years in a row? Physio... I don't know if it's called physio. [mumbling] Physios. And so he literally wrote the book and it's called, yeah: Culture is Everything. So it's a tremendous read and, look, I've read. It is quite a small book and I've read it a couple of times, and it just reaffirms how important people are and the culture of a workplace, and like, you've said I've worked in places that I would say probably had bad or toxic workplace culture, and something I never want to-- want to bring across, and something that constantly bring myself up on and, you know, try and make sure that we always improve upon, you know, like even last Christmas time we had, now, some of our assistant team over from Outsourcing Angels came over to Australia with us, went down to Margaret River, celebrating Christmas, and I think it's very easy to... Depending on where parts of your team are, which I've experienced before, like to be excluded from things, and it doesn't really feel that good when that happens so there's so many takeaways I have from that. But culture's a big thing that we focus on, I think, then you can also see very easily when people come in is like, well, would they fit the culture or would they not? And it's very easy to make decisions on that, but you know, albeit asterix if you do have a good culture, then like, start with it to make sure that they fit in with that.

Charley: Well, I love you brought two books to this that I haven't read. I really do so far, and it's funny that they're kind of in line with the books I have read and I've found really important. So I think the areas we're considering the highest priority says a lot. It really, really does. I'd love-- you know, that was something I think-- you know, once upon a time, me and Linh at Outsourcing Angel, we used to joke that it took us like four years to work out why people would spend money on branding instead of like doing a Fiverr logo. And then the other joke was that, you know, it took us four years to work out why you would spend money on like, culture or like, flying people into meet, or running group activities or HR because we're like, surely these people get along. But I feel like the deeper you get into business, the more important those areas start to stand out. It starts to be important.

Kim: Yeah, 100 per cent. I reckon it's just a super important thing especially when you're growing and as an agency, I think especially because you do have-- most of the time... Like a lot of agencies have dispersed team as well. Some have everyone in one location or maybe multiple, several, and it just... it makes it so much easier for the team cohesion I think.

Charley: Kinda picks up an interesting topic though. I mean... Many of us, especially in agency world, actually I got to say mostly in agency world here have virtual teams. Like I think virtual is pretty much the standard now if you have an agency in some form. But I think even if you do have virtual people, like, there are ways to cultivate a virtual culture. Like there really, really are. It shouldn't be an isolated, toxic experience because you have a virtual business.

Kim: Yep 100 percent. I think you definitely have. But I think that's why it gets harder and that's why you also need to have a bigger focus on it. Like, it's easy to have a culture when everyone's sitting in each other's pockets but when everyone separate it becomes a little harder.

Charley: Yeah definitely, definitely. Oh so, I mean... We've got no tactical books. I actually expected a copywriting book might come up or something like that, but it's really interesting that we've picked essential books for agency owners or the books agency owners must read, and it's like mindset, how to run a business, and culture, which I think is truly, truly fascinating. Now, I've got one more on my list, but I know this is a particular favorite of yours so I thought we might actually like take this one as a joint one to add in here together. How do you feel about that?

Kim: I'm down with that. I did have another one-- Okay. Oh backburner that for the next list. Just because I like to know how to perform but, let's do this one thing.

Charley: Okay, so this is a joint pick, which-- we really tried not to pick the same books, you guys, like offer a unique perspective, which is fascinating how close they've ended up anyway. But the last book I've got on my list and our joint contribution to this call is a book called The Goal by Eli Goldratt. And I'll say this right now, if you were gonna read this book you must get the audible version and listen to it. It is undoubtably the best audiobook I think ever done. I don't know any better.

Kim: Yeah. I mean there's some sections there I get a little bit worried about. It sounds like, if you're watching it visually, you're like, this sounds kind of like a 60s porno with the music that they use, but the content, it is-- it is a good listen. You definitely don't get bored in it even though, like, if you were to study the principles and I've seen the-- some of the lectures from Dr. Eli Goldratt on these specific ones it's like... If you watch those versus listening to The Goal like it's straight-- it's so completely different, but I can see what, like, they had to do it that way to make sure they get the point across.

Charley:  I just want to make sure I describe this, because obviously some people who are listening to this episode won't have heard it. So what makes these audio books so good is they've literally got different voices for the different people in the book. So every time someone else speaks, you hear another voice and they use sound effects to articulate things. So if he's in the car, it sounds like he's in the car, or if he's in a factory it sounds like he's in a factory, or if he's at home it sounds like he's at home. But it's one of the few books where I found myself like, actually completely immersed and sucked in to it, to the point where I would like go for a walk and not realize I'd be gone for like 90 minutes. Like it'd be like an hour and half an hour and I'm like, "Oh crap, I've got to go home." But I want to get to the why. Like apart from the fantastic production, you know, that gets top points. But the why, I feel like this book is such a must for agency owners is that I think it covers really, really well about, you know-- the title kind of says it, is like understanding what the goal for your agency is, and I'm not going to give away what that means in the book, but I really think that's an important thing. And then the second one is it got me to think about the production line of my business and team in a completely different way. So I don't care what sort of agency it is. Like all of us have deliverables every month whether we're trying to get, you know ads accounts ready, trying to do content, trying to do social media, websites the works. And like, to push those works through our business and perceive it like a factory and a conveyor belt, so to speak, was a huge shift in my thinking and dramatically improved productivity once I understood this.

Kim: Yeah, it's so true. And I think the benefit as well. Like the... Obviously this is-- the theory of constraints is what is based on. There's plenty of other content out there around it but essentially as well it's like, if you have a hose that's kinked, right, you may have 100 kinks within it that's stopping water from flowing through, which is in your business. However at any one time there's only one kink that is currently stopping that water flow. So like, literally I'm a simple person, right. Thinking of my business like a hose made it very easy for me, I'm like, "Hmm. Cool. Where is the current kink?" It's at the top, near the tap. Okay let's unkink that, but being able to break down not only the entirety of the business but then also each area and do the same thing? It's like a, like one of those, I always like to think of, like, babushka dolls, where you got the big one and then you undo it and the little ones. Like every area has its own theory of constraints, its own, basically, hose that can go through and be unkinked. So I think here I was just like, oh, it just makes so much sense to me. Being as simple as I like to try and keep it, and it just made things so much easier when I when I read that, and apparently is even easier, if anyone wants there's a comic book of it now. So they've even refined it, even easier for people to get through. But by understanding that it just made-- it made me feel less so much less stressed about workflow production, etc. Because it's like, oh, it's just like this, it's just like you said in the book, it's like that, and you know, you can-- It's very much easier to problem solve as well.

Charley: Yeah. I love that analogy you used as well with the kinked hose because I think that's the best visual representation or like see in your head of like, yeah, I start to understand theory of constraints but something it's really funny is I actually used it today like we're actually working out how to get the most content out and published in the team at the moment. And it's funny that this has become a theory. The thinking is like just assessing where where are we getting bottlenecked or where's that kink in the hose and how do we undo it to like unlock more productivity, and I just think it's such a good thing to have in a business.

Kim: Yeah. It's so powerful and yeah. Like you said, yeah, that's probably one overall that I give, you know, 10-- 11 out of 10 to rate.

Charley: Yeah, definitely, definitely. Now, would you like to add anything else to this Kim, or do we feel like we've covered the most important books for agency owners.

Kim: I just want to throw this one out there because it's definitely-- it'll just be quick.

Charley: Go for it.

Kim: Oh, Profit First by Mike Michalowicz, like, I think, you know, that one is one I just have to slide in there, because--.

Charley: Ooh. Disagree, disagree.

Kim: Disagree?

Charley: Yeah, disagree.

Kim: I want to hear your disagreement very quickly.

Charley: First-- first off, right. I've got nothing against Mike and I actually like a lot of his other books. I think there's some really unique concepts in there, but Profit First to me... Look, didn't hit a home run. It really didn't, and I want to probably understand why. I think if you're doing nothing with the numbers, and nothing with your books, and you see Profit First, like, it's like an awakening experience. It's like the first time you have sugar in your life. You feel like, "Oh my God what is this?" Or the first time you've had a coffee, you're like, "What is this, like, magic drink?" You feel alert, but I don't by any means think it is the best information on the topic, and I feel like Profit First falls down as you get bigger and have more complexities coming into your business. So it's a great starting point and I think it's a great beginner book, but I think if you would want to get more from your numbers, and like actually drive management and change from your numbers, I feel like Kate Cunningham's book The Blueprint for A Wildly Successful Business eats that for breakfast. I feel like you get more--

Kim: Yeah, that's-- It's interesting because like, I would think it depends on what you think the outcome of the book is. If you think the outcome of the books is proper financial management, et cetera, et cetera, that's not it. It's-- Profit First to me is going inside of the head of an entrepreneur/agency owner and compartmentalising and making things easier for them, and taking things away from them, away from their handle, and their control. It's like, you know, when you-- when you have a little kid and you hide the lollies on the top shelf and they can't see and they don't know they're there, every now and then you can give them a lolly. So definitely not from it-- I don't think it's a book on financial management. I think it's a book on helping an agency owner be able to take things outside of them that they don't need-- they don't actually need and don't need to be aware of, and leaving everything else that's on the plate in front of them. Therefore, because I think it's very easy to get overwhelmed as an agency owner with so many things going on, to refine it and keep it simple, and yes by all means also make sure you have effective financial management. I think you also get this because you probably have been influenced by your partner over the years as well, so it's probably helped. But, I think both on that side of things. I think it's brilliant at doing that, even if you have a good understanding just by taking, I think some of those things away? To me I thought was a brilliant way of helping business owners and especially agency owners be able to take some of those things away from themselves, so that they-- they-- they're not looking at it, expecting it, they're not incorporating into their cash flows and things like that, I think it's really, really powerful.

Charley:That is actually a really interesting perspective and I respect your opinion. I really do. Kim like you're very, very smart guy and I think you also highlighted something that I live with a bookkeeper slash accountant slash CFO, so like, financial knowledge isn't scarce in my household. I actually feel like, I mean, like, the whip has been cracked since the inception of my business. I've never been able to get away with anything. But that is actually a really interesting takeaway. I think there's certainly value in it, and it's interesting to see, I suppose from your perspective it's interesting that that's what you took from it, like that was the big takeaway, where that is not what I took away from it all.

Kim: Oh yeah. Well, I think you know you've always been much more well versed in... Definitely on managing the numbers very, very specifically, whereas I've probably been, like, I look at them, I manage them, I make decisions based upon it, but I probably fly more by the seat of my pants until probably the last year. So I think in that growth phase, even doing, you know, like, 60, 70, 80k a month, like I think sometimes, especially when you grow fast, it's easy to put some of that-- like to miss some of the things where-- that for me was just like, ah I can just make a few simple changes here, and then I can get back to properly like managing things financially using the-- especially the book that you mentioned and I know some of the strategies that you and B also share as well.

Charley: It's interesting, you know, but like, you know, if we weigh it up, the gap between like doing Profit First is the example. Let's say you follow that system exactly, and doing nothing is huge. Like the gap between doing nothing and Profit First. I think is fantastic, but there is definitely a level up from that. So I think I'll acknowledge that there is, if you are someone that's-- let's say numbers aren't your strong area and you don't want them to be, then this is so much better than doing nothing and a great entry point.

Kim: Yeah, good point. Yeah.

Charley: Well, that is our massive list. We will make sure that in the show notes we have all the books we've recommended in there so you can click away and get these into your agency life because I think they can make a massive difference. Now we're gonna wrap up the episode here. If you have enjoyed this episode of Agency Valley then please make sure to subscribe to the show number one, and then number two please share this around, like make sure you share it with another agency owner so that you can make an impact on their life. So thank you Kim for joining me. That's it for this episode.

Kim: Anytime. Thanks for having me.

brad sugars

Brad Sugars

Brad Sugars is known as one of the most prominent entrepreneurs and business coach of his generation. He is the genius mind behind two dozen successful companies which are also operating under his wing. His leadership caused his very own company ActionCOACH to ascend to more than a thousand offices in 70 countries worldwide.

Dubbed as “The Turnaround Kid” during his early years in business, he quickly accelerated from being a simple business consultant to being a very in-demand speaker and multi-awarded coach at events in the field of marketing, systemization, and sales. Presently, Brad continues to lead more than 15,000 business owners who are ‘Billionaires in Training.’ His books, videos, eBooks, white papers and other business tools are available online.

Check out Brad's newest book, "Pulling Profits Out of a Hat" here.
Learn more about Brad Sugars here: https://bradsugars.com/
Learn more about ActionCOACH here: https://www.actioncoach.com
Learn more about Brad Sugars ProfitMasters here: http://bradsugarsprofitmasters.com/

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