Ep. 005 | “What Systems Do Agency Owners Really Need?” with David Jenyns

Episode Highlights:

0:00 - Intro

3:10 - Introduction to Dave Jenyns and SystemHUB

4:58 - Systems and Project Management

5:49 - How Dave Got into Systems

11:28 - How Dave Systemised His Businesses and the Critical Client Flow

15:51 - How the Critical Client Flow Came to Be

20:38 - Charley's Story About Onboarding a Multi-Million Dollar Client

22:40 - How Agency Owners Can Effectively Onboard Clients

25:37 - Finding People to Handle Your Systems

30:44 - How to Deal with Resistance When Introducing Systems to Your Teams

38:00 - Where You Can Learn More About Dave Jenyns and Systems

39:01 - Closing Remarks

Episode Transcript:

Charley: Hello Agency Owners. It's Charley here, the host of the Agency Valley podcast and I just finished recording this episode with Dave Jennings of SystemHUB. Now Dave is the guy that originally taught me about systems and had a huge impact on my life and the direction of my business. Now before I met Dave, like everything was just on me. I was really struggling to contain my business, and I was at a point where if I didn't show up for work, the business stopped, the agency stopped. And then after understanding systems and really taking on board a lot of Dave's advice, I was able to create a business that worked completely separate to me. So to have an agency where you can be separate from it, systems is a bridge you do have to cross at some point. Now Dave outlines some critical systems that every agency or business must have, which he calls his Critical Client Flow, and then he also leans into how to deal with staff and team when it comes to systems and getting them on board to run the systems for you. So that's enough for me in the intro here. If you do like the episode, please make sure to like and subscribe, and we'd really appreciate it if you'll listen to us on iTunes right now. Please leave us a review, it really helps us reach more agency owner. So, into the episode.

Charley: Hello everyone. It's Charley, here the host of the Agency Valley podcast. And today, it's gonna be a really fun episode. I'm joined by someone I've known for quite a long time and someone I would call an expert on what we're about to get into today. I want to give a very big, warm welcome to Dave Jennings of SystemHUB and SYSTEMology. How are you doing, Dave?

Dave: Yeah, really well. Thanks for inviting me onto the podcast.

Charley:  Well thank you for coming. I was like, wooh, hopefully he's got the time. I know you've been a very busy guy with family, software, projects, multiple businesses.

Dave: Always got time for you. You always have supported what we've done over the years as well, so least I could do.

Charley: Oh, thank you so much. Now I put out a survey recently to some agency owners and I wanted to know, like, what was the important stuff to them. What are the things that they want to have more knowledge in or understanding, and overwhelmingly-- which you'll be thrilled to hear this, though I was surprised, is I had a number of people reach out and say, "Look, I want to know more about systems and processes, because things are getting a bit out of control here and I'm not really sure how to go about it." Now, I thought you are definitely the man to come on and talk about this stuff because anything I say about systems I actually got from you. So I might as well go straight to the source, so to speak.

Dave: Yes, well, I mean the kind words, because you've definitely taken a lot of what we originally turned or talked about and developed it from there. But it's definitely an area that I've been working on personally for a long time, applying it in our own businesses, and now helping other businesses apply the same thinking in their businesses.

Charley: Yeah definitely. And Dave definitely works on an amazing software SystemHUB, which is obviously related to what we're going to be talking about today. But when I first met Dave, he actually had a quite substantial SEO business and still does, Which he has successfully systemised. So one of the things I wanted to open up with you Dave is could you just tell us a little bit about SystemHUB and I suppose what it is, how it works, and like how agency owners could use it?

Dave: So SystemHUB is a cloud-based platform that stores businesses' standard operating procedures in the cloud. So for an agency, it would be all of your checklists and processes. It's the How-Tos. When I think about running an agency there are really two main software platforms that you need to nail is the project management platform, which will look after the who-does-what-by-when, and then you use something like SystemHUB to house the How-Tos, the step-by-step. So if you had to invoice someone, what is the process you have logging in to zero and issuing out that invoice just so you can start to share knowledge and transfer around the business. And that's a platform that we developed for our own agency, Melbourne SEO services, been around for about four years now and really developed into a tool that is the heart of our business. It houses-- it's the manual for the way that we run our business now and it's what enabled me to remove myself from the operations.

Charley: Yeah, so, so awesome. And I use SystemHUB personally and really enjoy it. And I think you nailed something there about, like, it's the companion to your project management software. So personally I'm a big fan of Asana and I love having SystemHUB with that. I feel like they go really hand-in-hand. What's your project management tool of choice at the moment, Dave?

Dave: At the moment we're using Asana and then before that we were using Basecamp, and I've worked with lots of clients in different industries, particularly in agency land. Some people are using Podio, Teamwork PM, Trello... So it really doesn't matter what platform you use as long as you've got something in place that looks after the who-is-doing-what-by-when. So you can really get accountability, because that oftentimes when it comes to systemising a business, that is a missing piece, the accountability, like it's one thing to have a how-to document, it's another having someone actually follow it and check it off and have responsibility, saying yes, I've delivered to the standard outlined in the system.

Charley: Yeah, I tend to agree with that a lot. And one of the things I wanted to ask you, I'm even going to leave it in right now is like, how did you first get into the systems? How did you get exposed to this way of thinking and ideology?

Dave: The first sort of real introduction to it was when I left school, I started learning about the stock market and trading. Basically when I left school I wanted to make as much money as I could and I thought the way to do that would be to go learn how to trade the stock market. And one of the first things that I started to learn about was developing a trading plan and that is very much just a step by step. What do you do at certain situations or in certain situations in the stock market. So you might be looking for stocks to exhibit certain criteria and that might be an entry signal. You might look for stocks to exhibit certain criteria and that would be a reason for you to get out. Because once money got involved in the stock market and when you're trading, oftentimes people become very emotional. So people develop trading systems as a way to remove that emotion to then create consistency because that's really what a trading system is about, and systems in general. It's about creating consistently steps that can be followed that produce a consistent outcome. That's where I kind of like first got the idea but then dug into it a lot more. One of my early businesses was owning a rock and roll clothing music store that we were looking to franchise. And we franchised the first store, and we brought on our franchisee, and one of the things that we did in that sort of process was capturing exactly how every part of the business was done and developing a manual for the franchisee on how to run that business. So I had some really sort of early introduction and training to systems thinking and then obviously explored and developed that over time reading books like E-myth and Traction and Scaling Up and Built to Sell and there's a whole range of books that all kind of reinforce the importance of systems. But for a lot of business owners it's a very hard topic and skill to master. Yet it's so critical for business to succeed in scale.

Charley: Yeah, I agree with that one. You know, obviously when we first get into business or I should say when I first got into business is like all I was really concerned was with leads and sales. But that was my priority is like her How do I generate a customer so to speak in like as you get better at that you start to realize there's this whole other world. And then as you get further into business you grow. Okay. Well, actually most of my time needs to be spent on systems and team like that's where the perspective starts to shift.

Dave: Yes. Yeah for sure. I really feel like the business owner-- where their biggest skill and talent and strength leave is in problem solving because that's what a business owner did to create their business. First off they identified what is a problem that their target audience was having. They felt like that problem wasn't being suitably solved in the marketplace. So they went out and created their products, their service as a solution for that space. And then they kind of get into the business and they're learning and they're problem solving it every step of the way. And business owners are great at solving these problems. Where they get stuck is they keep saving-- solving the same problem over and over. And to develop and evolve really, the business owner wants to solve a problem once capture the method of the way that that problem or issue was solved in the business. Create a system or process around it so that they can then move on and then start to solve higher, bigger quality problems.

Charley: Yeah definitely I'd never thought about it like that. I think that's actually a very helpful perspective for a lot of people. Because that is the main function in reality. Is every day we get a set of circumstances or problems or things we got to look at and we're attempting to build solutions for that, and we might just be doing that on repeat ourselves, which is not advised. But we're definitely doing it.

Dave: Yeah and then you start to... Once you solve a lot of the basic problems, whether that's getting leads consistently, converting those leads, or onboarding clients, getting those clients a great result, getting them to come back, that's gonna be consistent-- particularly in an agency for all of the clients that they get on board. So if you can solve that in a systematic way so that it can be delivered without the business owner involved and then start to have your team step up, then the business owner is a bit more free to start to look around at other parts of the business that might be more neglected, so then they might start to look into finance and, you know, how a wage is calculated. How do we make sure our cash flow is solid. Maybe they start to look in HR and they start to look at, you know, what does our recruiting system look like, our onboarding system. But there are a lot of other components to business and we just want to give the business owner some space so that they can then start to think about what the problems are and either they can solve them personally or they can identify the team member or the consultant or whoever's got the talent that can come in and solve that problem. And then again it's all about capturing that problem installing that solution within the business. So the business owner can then move on to the next problem.

Charley: Definitely. Now, you've actually done something which I think a lot of agency owners aspire to, which is in all honesty a rarity and I think you've done this very well, is you've actually built an agency and systematized it to the point where it doesn't need you. Your business is a completely separate entity to yourself which is freed up time for you to work on things like SystemHUB. So I wanted to ask, how long did that process take you? And then as a second part is what do you think the most important systems you got in place in your agency were or are?

Dave: The process took... To get the minimum viable systems into place which you call the Critical Client Flow, that took about nine months and then beyond that, you know, probably coming up closer to... Sort of 12 months, we started to fill in a few of the other gaps and, you know, I'm a few years into this journey now with having hired a CEO and she runs that, and there's still little bits occasionally that she's kind of getting made a nut out and master, like the operations, HR, finance, a lot of the management type of stuff.

All of that is incredibly well systems and there's a few things now that I'm just going back and putting the finer details on around the marketing, because that is an area of expertise for me. And oftentimes you can find, you know, it's like the plumber with the leaking pipes, which she really wanted to tighten up that area. So it's never a process that comes to a conclusion. It really is a way of thinking, and becomes part of the culture and the way that the business looks at growing and solving problems and just-- just the way that the team functions. So it-- I suppose realistically for an agency owner, if they wanted to focus on this and get some good traction, I would say three to six months. And if you know exactly what you're doing, you can nail the core parts of the business down, then probably closer to sort of maybe 12 months you would really start to get all of the different departments covered. But then beyond that, it becomes refinement. I've got these three phases of systems introduction that I go through. The first one is the Critical Client Flow, and that's all of the systems around how do you get clients. How do you sell those clients, onboard those clients, invoice those clients, deliver for the client, and then get them to come back. That's the Critical Client Flow. That's phase 1. There's probably about 10 to 15 systems. They are that someone needs to nail first.

Once you get past that then you move into the second phase of systemisation and that's where you start to think about the other departments and what are the critical systems in those departments. So you're looking at HR that usually covers things like hiring staff, onboarding staff, the management of that staff. You know, you think about finance. There are certain functions that would happen on a weekly, monthly, quarterly, and annual basis. So everything from paying wages to, you know, if you're based in Australia, arranging your quarterly BAS or you know tax obligations, those sorts of things. And it's-- there's a series of systems in that second phase. Similarly it's about sort of 15 to 20. And then once you move into the third phase, once you've got what I call the the Business Operating System in place, the BOS, once you've got that in place then the way that you approach is a bit different. You've-- you set up a dashboard which enables you to listen to the business. Then you can start to identify when issues and fires arise in the business. And then you start to create systems that solve problems. But first you have to get your baseline into place. You've got to make sure you've just got to the standard level of systems required to function. And then you kind of move into that high level and then it actually depends on the business because at that point it will depend on a lot of different variables that are going on inside the business.

Charley: Yeah there is a-- I suppose what you call a bit of special snowflake. You know like there are some unique characteristics to each business that would have it do it slightly different. But I think you've already kind of just let into my next question. But I really believe that Critical Client Flow is probably your masterpiece concept, in all honesty and I think that's like the essence of where people should start. How did that come to be?

Dave: The Critical Client Flows started with looking back through my journals and seeing a repeated drawing that I've drawn consistently over the 20 years I've been in business and it was a way for me to try and visualize what the minimum viable product was for the functioning business and then helped me identify which pieces were missing. So it wasn't until I finally removed myself from our agency and then I made SystemHUB and SYSTEMology my full time focus that I then started to think: Well, HOW did I do this? Where can people start? And I worked with a range of different business owners to keep finding out what the recurring issues and myths were around systemisation because I've never had the discussion with a business owner where they haven't agreed that systems and processes are important. It's more that it's just not urgent, they don't find the time to do it, or they don't see themselves as a systems person. And there's a lot of misconceptions around systemisation. So the first one that people often have is they think they're going to need to create hundreds of systems to have a big impact. That's most definitely a myth. Between 10 to 15 systems that are central to the business can have a significant impact. So it was about how do we identify those and that's what the Critical Client Flow is about. I thought, well, what's the essence of business? The essence is you need to get a customer. You need to sell that person on your product or service, you need to deliver that product or service, and then you need to get them to come back. So if you can visually map that out at a very high level, you do it on one page. It just gives the business owner so much clarity on what they should be systemising first. And a lot of people actually get an "Aha! Moment" just by going through the process because they'll-- as they're drawing it they'll go, "I don't really have any consistent ways that I'm generating leads. I don't have anything that's replicable. I'm only relying on one or two channels or maybe I'm just looking at referrals from my business." And then it's immediately clear and obvious why they don't have good lead flow because they don't have any lead generation systems or it's different for agencies. Agencies are quite funny because a lot of the agencies are usually quite strong in their marketing but then quite poor and weak on the operations side of things.

And I've worked with numerous digital agencies that have gone through the SYSTEMology process and as we've gone through it they they have no trouble selling. But then when it gets to the point of delivery, they don't have an onboarding system. There aren't email templates that they can send out to the client to set the expectations, they haven't properly got a project management software in place where there are a series of steps and how to documents on how that's done. So what it actually does though at a subconscious level is the business owner or oftentimes the salesperson, in the back of their mind whether they're aware of it or not they they undermine their own selling capabilities because secretly they know if they get more clients they're not going to be able to deliver to the right standard and things start breaking down in the back end. So it-- what someone actually needs to do 9 times out of 10, particularly if you own a digital agency-- a marketing agency is first starting off with getting your operation systemised get that down and then it actually makes it much easier to ramp up your traffic systems because then you feel confident that you can deliver to a high standard.

Charley: Dave, I feel like you just stabbed me so hard. That is exactly what it was like at my agency. Right to the letter.

Dave: Yes. Yeah. And it's extremely common. Like that that without a doubt, that is the most common thing I see amongst agency owners.

Charley: I've got to tell a quick story here. This is exactly what he said, but it was so interesting like many, many years ago when I was very early on in my own agency. I was growing. I'd found, you know, something people were interested in. I had a working lead generation system, and I was selling things and building up my retainer book with no systems. Then eventually I got an inquiry from a big company, like someone-- like this is a multi multi-million dollar company that said, "Right, we want to work with you and do our Adwords and Facebook ads with you." And I got on a call with them and I sold them, and I got so excited that I sold them, that I did the worst job of onboarding them ever. And I mean ever. So I give an example is like normally after you like sell someone, like you know, what's the next thing you generally have to do is like, you know, maybe send an invoice.

Dave: Yes. I mean two accounts or something.

Charley: Yeah. Just-- just didn't even ask who to send the invoice to. So I had no idea even who to communicate with about invoicing. And then, you know, if you're in my game, like I needed their logos and access to the website, and of course didn't get that either. Because why would you? And like what ended up happening is I was repeatedly calling them back. "Okay. Well, now I need this." And then I of course didn't ask for the next thing, and then would call them back the next day. "Okay. Now I need this."

And what shined through this experience is they could tell that I was very inexperienced. And they could tell that I wasn't very, you know, as professional as they expected and me repeatedly calling them up to onboard them actually resulted in them getting very, very nervous and turning into that micromanager client, when they were like wanting pretty much daily updates. Now, after the first month things weren't working out. Not because we weren't getting results but because of the time it was costing me in managing the client because I onboarding them so terribly.

Dave: One of the biggest breakthroughs that an agency owner listening to this could do right now which would save them a world of pain would be to create a short two to three minute long video that outlines the project's sort of timeline and expectations and what's required from the client.

If upfront they sent a video that said, "Hey, welcome aboard, super excited to have you join the agency! What I need from you here is to fill out the questionnaire below, you grab the details we need, we'll set you up in our project management software, give us about a week or two to get your account all set up before we turn on your ads and get things going. In that time we'll also touch base, we'll need to get some graphics, get you to confirm your creative, and then we should be up and running, and the camp will be humming towards the end of the month, and then beyond that we'll check in with you twice a month just to let you know how the project's going, you'll get reports from us once a month. Of course, if you have any questions at any point in time, just shoot us an email support@domain.com.au. Have that right up front in a video, and that just sets the tone for the engagement and helps to reduce the ongoing micromanagement. We did something very similar in our video production agency as well, because part of the digital agency was we made videos, and one of the recurring issues we had pop up was when it came to video, and we saw it also in our web development projects to the clients. Because we were very well systemised and we needed to make sure that we kept the project within the scope, so we had very clear rounds of feedback and told the client you will get one major round of feedback, two minors of feedback, you'll have a week to get us that feedback if you're unable to get it to us in that time, we will proceed to the next step and then if you need additional changes, we'll just charge you at our regular rate. But what that did was it just... It let the client know right up front what to expect. We helped to explain by following our systems and our processes, we would meet their on time and on budget expectations and then if they fell outside of that or that was slow with feedback or they wanted to give us extra that they understood why things kind of went off track. But I mean that's a really easy implementation that an agency owner can do to get a big win.

Charley: I think someone should does pretty much re-speak what you just spoke then into a camera. Well it's funny, it's like-- because 99% of agency owners won't do this, and it's like if you are the 1% that do, what an impact that will make in so many ways.

Dave: The other area then, it depends on the size of the agency. I mean, it's always hard when you're first getting started and it's you and a couple of part time contractors, but if you start to get a bit of traction and you realize maybe you're not a lover of systems and process, you need to find your right hand man or woman. That is the yin to your yang. You need-- if you're a big picture, fast acting, go out and win the clients as quickly as possible, schmooze and network, and greater sales and marketing. But then you pour on the back end then with the operations and the detail side of things, and following through and systems and processes, and that should be something that you find someone to compliment you, because you really can't build a business that works without you that is profitable, that scales, you can't build a team that scales without these. Like this is fundamental for business.

Charley: Such an interesting point. I think we have to dive deeper into this part though. Because I'll be real. Like I struggled to do my systems originally. Like this was like, forced feeding we're going to grow with. Like I knew it was so important and I hated every minute of it in the beginning, but the results and what I got from, it got me to enjoy it more. But then in future businesses, I've always gone with, I suppose more of this approach of hiring someone or having someone on the team who could contribute and it is 100 times easier.

Dave: Yeah I think... Definitely at the start. It's... What makes it hard is the business owner is looking for the immediate result, and the impact of systems aren't necessarily felt immediately and the positive impact actually compounds over time. So one system you might not get too much of a blip on a radar, but start implementing 10, 15 systems, get your Critical Client Flow into place, and then it will revolutionize your business. But you kind of have to hold your breath through that period. There's a little bit of an element of faith and trust, but deep down the business owner knows. Like that's what I always find most interesting. Oftentimes I'll have discussion with business owners and they know this is what they need to do. But for whatever reason they they resist it. They find other things, they de-prioritise it. They--you know maybe it's just because they don't like it. Whatever it is, they find a reason not necessarily to address it. So, I mean if you really struggle and you can't go head on with it, then you've just got to find another way around it. But at some point you have to cross this bridge. I think everyone is inherently aware and as you said earlier it's like, if you asked any business owner if they thought systems are a bad idea. I don't think anyone would say, "Yeah they're a terrible idea. Don't do that." We all know this thing. We want to pretend it doesn't apply to us, but we know it. And I think you said something really interesting there about like the impact of systems and it can be delayed and there's a compound effect. And my experience was actually very opposite. I had-- we had a very quick effect with systems. So the first system I actually built out was a system for managing an AdWords account. The issue I was facing in my agency very early on at the time this is many years ago is that myself and one of my team were managing AdWords accounts and we were managing them very differently to the point where we could, I suppose do work twice, or both work on the accounts in different ways and get different results. And like the consistency of things, source taking I suppose more time than was really required on these accounts. Now it took me about three days to build the first system.

There was a lot of back and forth discussion with me and this team member about how we should manage an account, but once we agreed the impact was almost instantaneous like across those that month is like we noticed that we were substantially more efficient in our accounts and were actually able to take on more work. So it was like a huge drive.

And it depends on where the business is at the difference that you had right there, was that you had another specialist who works on the tools, whereas a lot of... When they're smaller business owners and they're getting started they're still the main person on the tool. So what they end up systemising oftentimes is everything around the operations, which then frees them up and then that's why I was saying you need that cumulative effect. So it does depend on where you're at. If you've got a skilled team member who can take a large chunk of your work that is repeating doing the work, then you'll see an instant impact.

Charley: That's a really important distinction Dave, I really like that. So there is obviously an instant application then, but I tend to agree that for the majority of systems and people, it will be more delayed, as you've kind of referenced to right there. But I want to dig into another one to go deeper a little bit here, because this is one of the questions I got when I put this out to the community, was like in the example of doing systems with team, something that I get quite commonly is that how do you deal with resistance from team members with systems. So this is either team members who don't want to follow the system, or team members that are resistant to having systems in a business.

Dave: The biggest resistance that you will get is from existing team members. So it's all of that legacy thinking that they've worked up until this point and they haven't needed systems. Why do I need systems now? Oftentimes they'll jump to the conclusion that hey, is he or she looking to replace me? Are they looking for more transparency? Sometimes team members will create a black box around what they're doing for job security, so there can be a lot of different reasons. You have to understand what is the cause of that resistance and then you need to see if you can meet that head on or help them to understand what is the benefit to them. They're in their position. They're getting paid a wage or salary and they're used to doing things a certain way and oftentimes they're used to the business owner coming up with these harebrained ideas, and throwing ideas left right and center, some that they run with for a week and forget about it, and then they move on to the next thing. So they've had all of this whiplash and here we are coming in and suggesting a significant change, I'm already busy enough as it is, you know now you're going to try and lump this idea of creating systems on me as well. So there's a whole lot of different things that can cause resistance. The one thing that I will say is once you get this into place, for any new team members this becomes a non issue, because this is the way that you do business. We are a systemised business who has a culture of systems thinking, we always look for the systems solution. We have documented systems and processes that work hand-in-hand with our project management. If you don't think that you can operate in this framework then you're not a good fit for our business and we won't hire you in the first place.

So automatically when you start to build a a systemised approach even for recruitment, team members will then start to get a feeling for your systemisation before they even have the interview will get onboarded. And that means you'll start to attract the right people. So then with that in mind if we don't have to worry about new clients or new team members that are coming on board then it just comes back to addressing the existing team members. So there's a couple of ways that can be done. You have to think about, firstly helping them to understand the benefits to them. So when people go away on holidays and they have to keep working while they're on holidays or team members come back and they've got an inbox filled with 100 emails because nothing has been done while they've been gone. Like, no one likes that. So the systemisation can help them go on holidays and help things keep moving. It can also help team members who want to move up in their organization because if if someone is able to document, systemise their role and then delegate that to lower cost labor, that instantaneously makes them more valuable, and means that they can move on to other higher level duties which make them more valuable to the business owner. So if you can help them understand that there's real benefit to them for doing this and then why it needs to be for the business as well. So you help to understand from their position, you let them know we're looking to grow a business here, we need to get these systems and processes in place. This is just what we have to do, and then get their buy in on that early in the piece, get them to work through the Critical Client Flow with you. So you you take them through the process so they're involved and then you make it as easy as possible for them to document. So the documentation is actually a two person role is the person with the knowledge and then this person who does the documentation.

So if you can make the knowledgeable person just make a recording of them doing what they're already doing, but they don't have to worry about documentation again that reduces some of the friction and the resistance, because now they're not necessarily the ones having to do the documentation. And that again starts to get you some wins, and then towards the end of this you will find some people still won't be the right fit, and just like a business owner, the business owner that was required to grow the business up until now and this point that it's at isn't always the same business owner who will grow it through to that next level, you need to evolve and change. You might have micromanaged and been across everything to this point, but now to move through that next level you have to let go and let your team step up. So you have to evolve. Now not everybody is comfortable with some business owners get stuck, just like team members get stuck. And if you go through this process and find they're not the right fit for you you'll actually find some of them start to self select themselves out. And it becomes obvious that they're not a good fit for the organization and then it just becomes time to find the right people who will get on board with the mission and who will drive forward what you're looking to do. I mean there's quite a bit there but a few ideas maybe to get someone started.

Charley: I've absolutely got this. To sack staff, start again. Definitely don't. But I tend to agree. I think the big one that I've experienced myself and also agree with is if you get buy in from the team, like get them involved in the systemisation experience, and they own a part of it, that makes all the difference. If you're handing someone, this is how we do things now, I almost-- you have to kind of expect some resistance. Because you're putting up resistance.

Dave: Yeah, everybody's busy. Like business owners are busy, and they might get the bug or get bitten by the bug of this idea or systemisation and now they want to systemise after listening to this podcast, and then they'll go back to their team members and say, "Ah I want you to do the systems." But your team members are busy too. And the idea is not everybody resonates with creating systems and documentation, so you get the right people, get their buy in. Make it easy for them. If you make it easy for them that just becomes much-- I mean that's the whole premise behind SystemHUB. And there's a lot of friction to creating a Dropbox folder, and setting up different folders, creating word documents in those and not having them formatted consistently, and makes it hard to find security permissions and like all of this stuff. Friction is the enemy, and complexity is the enemy of systems. So the name of the game is actually simplification. If you can simplify your business, everything starts to move easier.

Charley: Yeah I agree a lot there. Now Dave, we are coming up to our time here and that was a beautiful segway into two ways. Like obviously we can't talk about everything about systems on this one episode. So we might have to get you back on for another episode, but in between those moments where can people go to learn more about SystemHUB and systems and what you do?

Dave: So the two main areas I work on these days is a SystemHUB which is the software that we talked about. So that's just SystemHUB.com and then SYSTEMology is actually the thinking. So we've developed a process to extract business owners from the operations of their business. It's a process they go through, we call it SYSTEMology, and you can see that it systemology.com. There's loads of free infom just scroll down to the footerm look for the YouTube channelm you knowm download the system for creating systemsm and just start consuming the info. If you've got questions you can get me on Twitter, or go through the contact page. Now I'll do my best to help, or at the very least I can point you in the right direction.

Charley: Thank you so much Dave, and guys we will link to both SystemHUB and SYSTEMology in the show notes, so wherever you are listening to this podcast, if you'd check the description you can click through right away. Dave, thank you so much for coming on and sharing so many important things with us today. This is the end of our episode. I hope you have a wonderful day.

Dave: Thanks for having me.

david jenyns

Dave Jenyns

David Jenyns is the founder of Systemhub and SYSTEMology. Two of the most well-known game changers in business and technology. They provide simple solutions to complex business matters.

With over 17 years of experience in business, Dave went beyond building a company. Since the turnover of his first company’s operations to another CEO, he has devoted himself to developing Systemhub to help other business owners successfully maximize their time and money through system automation.

Eventually, he was able to transform his passion into a movement called SYSTEMology. It aims to build better businesses through groundbreaking innovation.

As a budding entrepreneur at twenty years old, he started to develop stock market trading courses and franchise retail clothing stores. His digital agencies Melbourne SEO Services and Melbourne Video Productions became the most sought-after in the industry.

Dave is the author of the Amazon bestselling book entitled “Authority Content” and his keynote presentations are available on TEDxTalk’s YouTube Channel.

Learn more about Systemhub or SEO and Video services by clicking the link below: https://www.systemhub.com/

If you want to get in touch with David and other business innovators, JOIN THE MOVEMENT! Visit https://www.systemology.com/ or more info.

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